Ancients.info - The Online Resource for Ancient Coins & Antiquities  

Go Back   Ancients.info - The Online Resource for Ancient Coins & Antiquities > Coin Talk > Roman
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Sidebar Off

Roman Roman Republican, Imperatorial, and Imperial coinage.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Dec 20, 2008, 05:18 AM   #1
leetoone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 192
   View My Photo Gallery
Unmarked London Mint Type - help needed

As I have said before, I am trying hard to make sense of the London unmarked series and this one does not seem to be falling into place. I would be grateful for any help.

Found in Lincolnshire, UK.

Obverse C VAL MAXIMIANVS NOB C Laureate, cuirassed bust right

Reverse GENIO POPULI ROMANI Genius etc, etc.

Weight 8.1 g. Die diameter 24mm.

I have come up with the following options:-

Lyons 17b but not listed for cuirassed bust type

London 14b but does not seem to be the small head on tall neck style

London Class II b type 17-22 but not recorded with this long obverse legend

Nothing else seems to fit unless I have missed something obvious.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RIC VI unmarked unidentified galerius london.jpg (98.6 KB, 153 views)
leetoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2008, 08:18 AM   #2
Congius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 211
View My Photo Gallery
Lee,
Based on style and obv legend, I think it belongs to the transition between RIC VI class II and III, dating to 300-303. I think this is the group that RIC VII labels as class IIb (i.e cloest match is RIC 21), but it doesn't really matter seeing as it's unlisted.

The reasoning is:

Has to be London not Lyons (or Lyonese celator made for London - class I) based on style.

Obviously not class IIa based on style - these are the crude very long necked angular ones.

C VAL MAXIMIANVS obv legend is not listed after class IIa, so your coin belongs to time period shortly after (but not IIa itself, per above) rather than much later.

From what I've seen the style of IIb is quite close to III. RIC notes lower relief busts, but it's hard if not impossible to guage that from photos. FWIW the only other coin I've seen that I've attributed to class IIb also has the "kinked" laurel ties of your coin, which is also sometimes seen in class IIa; I've not noticed this type of ties in class III, so maybe that is also a general help in dating (requires more data!).

Ben
Congius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2008, 09:27 AM   #3
leetoone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 192
   View My Photo Gallery
Ben

Thanks for that. I was heading for IIb myself, but I'm a bit tentative with this series at the moment.

I had this one down for RIC VI 14a but am not so sure now. Is it more likely to be RIC VI 20?

Weight 9.7 g. and die diameter 24 mm.

I need to spend more time on these but I'm trying to concentrate on my next London list - this is a temporary diversion!

Best wishes for the festive season,

Lee

Last edited by leetoone : Dec 20, 2008 at 09:34 AM.
leetoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2008, 11:32 AM   #4
leetoone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 192
   View My Photo Gallery
Having now looked at the Fyfield Hoard plates, my last coin seems to also fall between the styles of class IIa and class IIb types. Again with the longer legend, and the "kinked" laurel ties!

Lee
leetoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2008, 12:38 PM   #5
Congius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 211
View My Photo Gallery
Lee,
I'd tend to go with IIa for that one based on the long neck and angularity. For comparison, here's one that I think is IIb (or is it III?!). I really need to gather a much larger collection of pictures of these to get a better handle on them myself.

Hope you're gearing up for a happy Christmas yourself. I'm off work now until the new year, so all is good.

Regards,
Ben
Congius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2008, 06:29 AM   #6
leetoone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 192
   View My Photo Gallery
Ben

I would go class III for that last one. I have a couple of Galerius that I posted here

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/boa...?topic=36226.0

that I think have closely matching styles. So RIC VI 37a for your last posting, I think.

I do have what I think is a class IIb Constantius that I will try and post over the holiday period. Or maybe I will scan my ten Group I coins and post a pic of the lot. If I do that, it will be in "the other place" because of picture uploading limits.

Lee
leetoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 6, 2009, 12:05 PM   #7
jamesicus
Registered User
 
jamesicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 265
   View My Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by leetoone View Post
.......... I had this one down for RIC VI 14a but am not so sure now. Is it more likely to be RIC VI 20? ..........
Lee -- here are my coins that I have cataloged as RIC VI (Londinium) 14a and 20:


14a .................................................. .................. 20

James

Last edited by jamesicus : Feb 6, 2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason: added forgotten word
jamesicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 6, 2009, 08:42 PM   #8
RobertB
 
Posts: n/a
View My Photo Gallery
another example -- different ties

Hi, for your perusal, here's a twin for your original coin, with very similar style -- except for the straight-(ish) wreath ties.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 204-037-750.jpg (50.2 KB, 77 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old Feb 6, 2009, 08:55 PM   #9
RobertB
 
Posts: n/a
View My Photo Gallery
one more...

Hi, James, thought this was interesting -- this coin sits right between your RIC 20 and Ben's -- longer neck + smaller head than Ben's, not as long as yours:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 104-932-750.jpg (46.7 KB, 76 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old Feb 6, 2009, 09:22 PM   #10
jamesicus
Registered User
 
jamesicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 265
   View My Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertB View Post
Hi, James, thought this was interesting -- this coin sits right between your RIC 20 and Ben's -- longer neck + smaller head than Ben's, not as long as yours:
Thanks Robert. Here is my Specimen (ex. CNG) of RIC VI (Londinium), Group I (iii) Class III -- large, spread bust , almost always cuirassed, in low relief: No. 37a:



James
jamesicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 6, 2009, 09:29 PM   #11
jamesicus
Registered User
 
jamesicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 265
   View My Photo Gallery
.......... and here is No. 33, Galerius, of the same series -- RIC VI (Londinium), Group I (iii) Class III:



James
jamesicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 7, 2009, 04:57 AM   #12
jamesicus
Registered User
 
jamesicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 265
   View My Photo Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by leetoone View Post
As I have said before, I am trying hard to make sense of the London unmarked series ..........
I have attempted to do this on my page at http://jp29.org/plncmms.htm Lee -- check in particular Footnote [1].

James

Last edited by jamesicus : Feb 7, 2009 at 04:59 AM. Reason: added information
jamesicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 7, 2009, 10:57 AM   #13
leetoone
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 192
   View My Photo Gallery
Thanks James.

Your page and footnote summary is really useful. I think I now understand the structure proposed by RIC but I sometimes have difficulty in assigning coins within that structure. Some are obvious such as your long necked one above but others I find more difficult.

Lee

PS Thanks for the additional images Robert. Is it your website I have just discovered at http://www.numisology.com/Londinium.htm ?
leetoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 7, 2009, 11:53 AM   #14
Congius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 211
View My Photo Gallery
Thanks, James!

Your page is very useful! I've reorganized/reclassified my own reference photos accordingly!

Ben
Congius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Feb 7, 2009, 12:19 PM   #15
RobertB
 
Posts: n/a
View My Photo Gallery
"PS Thanks for the additional images Robert. Is it your website I have just discovered ..."

Yes, my eternally under-construction website. One of these days I'll officially launch it, in the meantime the effort is building character...
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content copyright © 2002-2006, VHobbies.com, LLC. All rights reserved.