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Old Jan 30, 2008, 11:43 AM   #1
Congius
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Constantius I's Boulogne mint

CGB has just listed three GENIO POPVLI ROMANI nummi in odd style which it is attributing to a purported Boulogne mint:

http://www.numishop.com/boutique1.ph...wOA==&tri=prix

The coins are listed in RIC under Lyons, but CGB cite Bastien as the source of the Boulogne attribution (or more generally a coastal mint prior to his British invasion), and note Bastien's claim of the Lyonese style being due to a celator from that mint being present at Boulogne!

Does anyone have the Bastien reference and know what he has to say about these, and why he's assuming the existence of this otherwise unknown mint?

Ben
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 09:20 AM   #2
marcus flavius
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Ben, first time I was aware of this "temporary" invasion mint and real interested myself about the evidence that Bastien used to come to this conclusion. Hopefully, one of our European members has access to more information.
Perhaps, like Constantius II striking at Amiens mint after its takeover from Magnentius, Constantius utilized this facility until it could be transferred to another location.
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 09:26 AM   #3
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Bastien, Lyon (294-316), pp. 125-8, "Annexe: Atelier continental sans marque."

He also cites: article by Sutherland on Diocletian's reformed coinage in ANS Centennial volume, 1958; and articles by himself in Revue belge de num. 1959 and Num. Chron. 1971.
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Old Jan 31, 2008, 06:19 PM   #4
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Sounds like a lot of Boulogne to me! (actually I have no idea-I just wanted to say that )

Voz
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 06:28 AM   #5
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Thanks for the references, Curtis. I'll look them up next time I'm in the NYC library.

I'm with you Voz - does sound rather like a lot of "Boulogne".

Ben
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 10:41 AM   #6
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Hi,

There was a temporary mint striking gold at Iantinum (Meaux, to the east of Paris) prior to the invasion by Constantius and those pieces are marked.

I've been curious about the AE Boulogne connection and must follow this up.

Regards,

Mauseus
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 03:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauseus View Post
Hi,

There was a temporary mint striking gold at Iantinum (Meaux, to the east of Paris) prior to the invasion by Constantius and those pieces are marked.

I've been curious about the AE Boulogne connection and must follow this up.

Regards,

Mauseus
Mauseus,

Can you provide an image of an Iantinum piece? Sounds intriguing and I've not run across this information before you mentioned it. There are no hits on Coin Archives under Iantinum or Meaux.

Thanks in advance,

--Zach
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Old Feb 1, 2008, 05:04 PM   #8
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Hi,

An image of three Iantinum coins from plate 6 of Casey's "Carausius and Allectus" volume, one Maximianus and two Diocletians; all have the IAN exergue mark.

Regards,

Mauseus
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Old Feb 3, 2008, 09:09 AM   #9
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I havn't yet read Bastien, but Brent was kind enough to send me a copy of Sutherland's 1958 (pre RIC VI) article, in the light of which I also re-read the RIC VI introduction to London, and the "Boulogne" mint idea does now make a bit more sense.

Sutherland, in his 1958 paper "Diocletian's Reformed Coinage in Britain and Related Problems", analyses the unmarked GENIO POPVLI ROMANI nummi as stylistically falling into three groups which he refers to as Unmarked I, II & III (the CGB "Boulogne" coins are of Unmarked I style, Unmarked II are the long necked "London" variety most common in the marketplace, and unmarked III have a heavier broader head without the absurdly long neck of group II).

Sutherland analyzed Unmarked I as grouping best in a sequence after the LA/B, PLA/B marked coins, but at the time (before the discovery of RIC VI Lyons 1) assigned these three issues (LA/B, PLA/B, Unmarked I) to London. With the discovery of RIC VI Lyons 1 (marked "B" - an obvious continuation of the pre-reform Lyons mark, and fitting with the earliest G.P.R. issues at the other mints) Sutherland corrected himself in RIC VI and reassigns these three issues to Lyons (in series: A/B, LA/B, PLA/B, Unmarked I).

The Unmarked II & III groups are quite distinct from Unmarked I, and Sutherland assigns these to Britain, although possibly a non-London mint (maybe the "C" mint of Carausius & Allectus).

What appears to have happened is that before his British invasion Constantius had used personel from Lyons to boost output both at Trier (which supplied a lot of coinage to Britain), but also for Britain itself - the Unmarked I "Boulogne" group. Obviously it wouldn't make too much sense to transport coins from Lyons to Britain (presumably this figures into Bastien's argument), hence the theory of a northern/coastal mint, although (absent any conflicting evidence) it seems it would also make sense if Lyonese mint personel had been transported to Britain and coined the Unmarked I group there (if Boulogne, why not Britain?). That the Unmarked I group appear to have been produced a few years after the post-reform coinage started at Lyons is consistent with the post-reform coinage at Britain being delayed by the need to first oust Allectus.

Ben
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Old Aug 16, 2008, 02:38 PM   #10
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I think http://www.ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=1935 is an appropriate and complimentary cross-reference for this thread.

James
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 03:47 PM   #11
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An analogous reference pertaining to the Mint at Boulogne under Carausius (and its output) can be found at: IN PRAISE OF LATER ROMAN EMPERORS (The Panegyrici Latini), C. E. V. Nixon and Barbara Saylor Rodgers, University of California Press, (1994) -- VIII, Panegyric of Constantius -- pages 118-119, footnote 24.

James

Last edited by jamesicus : Sep 17, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason: link not working correctly
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