What camera to buy?

[marcus flavius]

I am wanting to purchase an affordable digital camera to take photos to post. If you were going to purchase one today, any suggestions? I don't want anything too fancy that will break easily, but will produce nice good detail image. Thanks for any help!

[bbridgwater]

I have a Canon A60 and am very happy with it. Here's an example of a photo taken with it (this one in natural sunlight).

This is an old 2MP camera with 3x optical zoom, but it's really more than enough for the job. They are practically giving them away on eBay now since people are going for the newer camera with more mega-pixels (bigger image size / finer resolution). What makes the Canon good for the job is that although it's a low end camera it gives you full manual controls if you want them, and also can be remotely operated from your computer via a provided USB cable and "remote capture" program. It also has good optics and image capture/processing electronics. To avoid camera shake I use a small copy stand and use the remote capture.

It's easy to get suckered into thinking that you need a more expensive camera with more megapixels, but that's not true! At 2MP the maximum image size is 1600x1200, so if you paste reverse and obverse together you'd get a maximum 3200x2400 image. In practice the coin doesn't usually fill the frame, so the combined image is less than that, but still way bigger than you actually need. For the attached example the full size picture was approx. 2200x1000 (the close-up of Salus is full size), and the version of it below was scaled down to 750x360 which is the maximum size this board allows. Even if you want to print images as well as use them on the web, this is more than enough to get nice quality 8x10 (or bigger) enlargements.

The key here isn't megapixels, but rather being able to fill the frame (i.e. zoom/magnification) so as to be able to use the megapixels that you have. Here again you don't need anything fancy - no expensive lenses! The A60 itself has 3x optical zoom (don't count digital zoom - it's useless), and I use it together with stacked 2x + 4x close-up "lenses" (these are flat like a UV filter) and an adapter for the A60 since these low-end cameras can't use them directly. The additional cost for adapter (new) and 1x2x4x close-up set (used on eBay) was about $35. With this combination I have 3x2x4 = 24x magnification, which is more than enough to fill the frame with a large follis, and still get very large combined images of the smaller coins (e.g. 1600x800 for a AE3-4). The details will vary from camera to camera because of the different macro modes available (how close to the coin you can get and still focus).

Ben

[AnemicOak]

Nice pic Ben.

I haven't done much coin photography, but have done lots of other close up stuff. Make sure the camera has a macro mode (preferably one you can focus manually in macro mode), from there the lighting & a good tripod or copy stand are going to matter more than the specific camera (a decent 3-4 MP camera isn't real expensive any more & will generally be more than fine).

[marcus flavius]

Thanks a bunch to both of you! Your advice makes sense and Brian is right, really nice pics Ben!
Hope to be able to share some with all of you in the near future. That's part of the hobby I'm lookin foward to doing. It can also provide a nice inventory record, since the coins are in a safety box.
I know others who would like to try will now be encouraged to do so!
Vince

[Scotvs Capitis]

I have a 6megapixel Fuji Finepix and love it for general photography. It doesn't have a manual focus which really ruins it for me. It has macro, but the focus is just slightly off when zooming into a maximum resolution pic of a coin.

Lighting is the key, and despite having taken several photography classes in college and shooting photos for a newspaper back in the day, I can't seem to get my lighting set up down properly. Once I do that, everything else should fall into place. A decent camera with great lighting is better than a superb camera with poor lighting.

[vozmozhno]

Stellar photo Ben...

I have a 5.0 megapixel Kodak Easyshare C340 with 3x optical zoom and I've been pretty disappointed with it as far as coins are concerned. The macro mode won't focus close-up and I simply can't get the kind of sharpness I was hoping for. Also, the batteries last for about 10-15 minutes and then I have to shut the camera off and put it back on the charger. The only upside is that it takes very nice pictures in general.

Voz

[jamesicus]

My wife fell in love with my spiffy Canon digital camera and so I lost it to her -- you know how that goes! Off I went shopping for a new one. The guru at my local camera shop said "don't spend a lot of money on an expensive 'bells and whistles' digital camera for taking close-up pictures of coins, check out this $295 Pentax Optio 10 -- it has excellent macro capabilities". He proceeded to take several shots of some coin change from my pocket on the counter top utilizing existing shop lighting with (in my eyes) outstanding results -- sold! He threw in a spiffy mini-tripod stand (pictured below) for another $10.

I really love this camera -- great lense and focus adjustment; easy to operate (any idiot can get great results with it -- I can!); light and compact; great PC interface software.

I am a devotee of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle of photography. For coins I use a very simple set up (depicted below): black velvet cloth for a background (no edge shadow), mini-tripod makes for easy focus adjustment and rock steady shutter release, a cheap Walmart desk lamp with a "daylight" flourescent bulb (not shown -- I move it around until the pic looks about right in the camera viewer window). I set the camera to "Flash off" and "Macro". I sometimes take my camera to local coin shows in order to take reference photos for friends -- just the camera and background cloth -- I use the existing building lighting.

All the coin photos on my Web site were taken using the foregoing setup and camera settings.

Depictions of camera, setup and sample coin photo:



http://jp29.org/ricphoto03.jpghttp://jp29.org/ricphoto05s.jpg
http://jp29.org/ric83os.jpghttp://jp29.org/ric83rs.jpg

[Gunner]

I use the Olympus SP-350. It was the only one I could find with a "Super Macro" mode. You can put this camera up to 1" away from objects and focus sharply in that mode. It is easy to use and works well. I am impressed with the above results!! Nice Photos!!

Gunner

[jamesicus]

.......... I am impressed with the above results!! Nice Photos!!

Gunner

I am new to this Forum and so I don't know the first names of participants like some of the "old hands" do. For now I will use Forum "handles" when replying to posts. I hate to reply without a salutation -- it seems so cold and impersonal.

So, Gunner, assuming your comment was directed to all of the photos posted to date in this thread, I agree -- IMO all of them are superb. In my case, it was all due to the equipment and the set-up I use. It illustrates that coin photography is really easy once you get (the simple) methodolgy and techniques right.

And Vince: I think you will soon be producing great photos.

James

[marcus flavius]

Many thanks to all; I'm soaking all this in and very excited to embark on this new challenge.
It's a new area of "collecting" that will add additional fun to my hobby. To be honest, searching for new coins is getting more difficult nowadays, but please no complaints. I'll be still able to collect, but in a new way!
I'll do a little more research (consumer reports and such) and then buy the right camera for me.
These photos are really nice.
The Joy of Clicking

[jamesicus]

Background can have a subtle effect on the photo image . Raw images, reverse of Claudius Dupondius - RIC 92.
Above: black velvet
Below: white cardboard

http://jp29.org/ric32.jpg

http://jp29.org/ric33.jpg

[vozmozhno]

You are absolutely right.

In a recent art class, the instructor showed the class some modern artworks that use different backgrounds to create the illusion that the colors in the foreground have changed. One example showed a band of color which appeared orange against one background and grey against another, yet when you carefully followed the band at the point where it crossed from one background to the other you could clearly see it was the same color throughout its entire length--the change was simply an illusion created by the way the mind processes colors in relation to one another.

Voz

[Kiffin Miller]

One thing I have found about colour when taking shots of paintings, coins etc is white balance. I have an Olympus E300 and one option is one touch white balance which you do by taking a shot of a white piece of paper the camera then saves this setting. By doing this you set the white balance of the environment that you are in at that time. Then any photos taken in that same situation show correct colours. Without this colors vary widely from actual. Have fun.
Kiffin Miller

[jamesicus]

One thing I have found about colour when taking shots of paintings, coins etc is white balance. I have an Olympus E300 and one option is one touch white balance which you do by taking a shot of a white piece of paper the camera then saves this setting. By doing this you set the white balance of the environment that you are in at that time. Then any photos taken in that same situation show correct colours. Without this colors vary widely from actual. Have fun.
Kiffin MillerExactly, Kiffin -- thank you for that input.

James

[Gunner]

Wanted to post this just in-case it would benefit any of the members. If anyone decides on the SP-350, feel free to ask and I'll help you as much as I can with camera ops.

Hello Gunner,
Hi, Hope you had a nice Holiday and thanks for recommending this camera. I was on Ebay and actually won this from the company's site as a factory reconditioned model.
What made me select this one over some others was the features. For the coins the macro zoom is important, but do you use the 12 albums organization mode for your coins?
Also, I read that it really eats up batteries, what is you experience?
Maybe an ac adapter would help.
What size memory card do you use?
I have a Mac so I shouldn't have a problem transferring pics to the computer.
Any other insights you may have will be appreciated, like problems you dealt with and things to avoid.
It has a hot shoe, is an added flash mount recommended?
What kinda tripod setup do you use?
I may have other questions, hope you are OK with me asking, thanks.
If you wish to post you reply on the thread that's Ok. Iit may help other collectors.
I won't be getting the camera until around Dec 1st
You take nice pics. Ebay has a seller offerring another lens for this camera for super macro zoom. Has a nice pic of a Washington Quarter.
I don't know if it's needed yet (sells for about $40 plus shipping).
Again thank you for the help!
Sincerely,
Vincent

Hi Vincent and CONGRATULATIONS on the purchase of one WICKED camera for coin photos!! It is super easy to use and YES, it EATS batteries. I keep 4 quick charging AA batteries on hand which solves that problem (Takes Two in the camera and the other two batteries charge in 15 minutes). Also, if you use the Lithium batteries, the charge lasts much longer (but they are Expensive). I feel no need at this time for an attachment lens; however, I may explore one in the future. I use a 64 MB card and the camera has a small built-in memory as well (32mb??? not sure). I make sure I only use indirect sunlight for my pictures. I do not recommend the use of a flash...ever....if you can help it. I do not use a tripod but rather tape the coin upright to a white piece of paper and set the 10 second timer on the camera....put the camera in super macro mode....set it to fill the LCD screen with the coin but slightly over 1" away to ensure proper auto-focus and SNAP...its that easy :). Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Chip

[Gunner]

Bought a new "All-In-One" printer last night (HP Photosmart 3310). I did not buy it for coin photography; however, I was curious so I did a little experiment. This thing is not bad AT ALL for taking pics of coins. See this Anepigraphic issue first photographed with the Olympus SP-350 and then scanned with the HP 3310.

Gunner

[lrbguy]

Nice pic Ben.

I haven't done much coin photography, but have done lots of other close up stuff. Make sure the camera has a macro mode (preferably one you can focus manually in macro mode), from there the lighting & a good tripod or copy stand are going to matter more than the specific camera (a decent 3-4 MP camera isn't real expensive any more & will generally be more than fine).


I've been using an older Nikon coolpix 990, and the autofocus is driving me crazy. I'm an old film camera guy, and got used to full manual control for macro work. I still have that gear, and the copystand, lights, and whatnot. But now I want to get a digital camera I can focus manually, use with a cable release or other remote shutter system, and work in macro mode. It doesn't have to be state of the art, but should let me do 1:1 or better with no distortion or abberation. A lock-up mirror would be nice to reduce camera shake. But it would be even nicer to bring this in with an older model at less than $600.

Searching eBay is not giving me the info I need.

Any suggestions on how to put something together? Shooting coins/stamps is the main priority to consider.

[bbridgwater]

LRBguy,
I use a Canon A60, and you can see an example of the results I posted earlier in this thread (the quality is somewhat degraded since it's been resized without resharpening and recompressed to fit the 750 wide allowed size). These cameras sell used on eBay for $50-60 since it's now an obsolete model. What's nice about this model (and some, but not all, of the newer Canon models) is that it lets you control the camera remotely from your computer via a USB cable (kind of the digital equivalent of a remote shutter release) to avoid camera shake.

If you're mostly concerned about displaying pictures on the web/computer, then the concept of 1:1 isn't really relevant - you're more concerned about how big it looks on screen, which will vary according to the size of monitor and screen resolution (e.g. 800x600, 1600x1200) that people are using. The biggest size pictures that this forum allows to be uploaded is 750 wide, and therefore provides a practical image size to shoot for. The actual size of a 750 (or whatever) image will depend on the size of the monitor/resolution used to display it. e.g. at 800x600 resolution, a 750 wide image will be almost full screen width, whereas at 1600x1200 resolution it would be about half screen width. The screen width of course varies per monitor size.

From these types of numbers, you can see that an old 2 mega pixel camera like mine, is more than enough to get images of this size. A single 2MP image is 1600x1200, and usually you'll join obverse and reverse to get an image potentially 3200x2400 if you can fill the frame with your subject - a matter of magnification. With my camera 3x optical zoom and $35 worth of add-ons (a 1x 2x 4x close-up set and an adaptor to let me use it with my camera) I can achieve 24x magnification which in macro mode lets me get a full-frame focused image.

You can trade off mega pixels for magnification to an extent, but it's not really a substitute. Note that a current (and much more expensive) 8MP camera is only going effectively provide 2x more "magnification" than an old 2MP camera since sqrt(8) = 2xsqrt(2) - think of your 8MP as a square of sides sqrt(8). Different cameras will also provide different macro abilities, and of course the ability to focus closer is also a factor in the final image size (i.e. with a better macro mode you can fill the frame with less magnification).

Ben

[lrbguy]

LRBguy,
I use a Canon A60, and you can see an example of the results I posted earlier in this thread (the quality is somewhat degraded since it's been resized without resharpening and recompressed to fit the 750 wide allowed size). These cameras sell used on eBay for $50-60 since it's now an obsolete model. What's nice about this model (and some, but not all, of the newer Canon models) is that it lets you control the camera remotely from your computer via a USB cable (kind of the digital equivalent of a remote shutter release) to avoid camera shake.
Ben

Thanks for the reply, Ben. Yes I had noted your earlier post, and I scoped out a couple of eBay offerings for one of these cameras which has a number of nice attachments available. I found a nice one for less than $35, but I passed - for two reasons. First of all I noticed that it did not give me manual focus control, which is my number one concern. Secondly, I could not tell how this camera would give me an improvement over the Nikon Coolpix 990 I already have. I didn't know enough about the A60 to justify a bid. I don't know what kind of adaptor you have that let's you use the supplementary close up lenses, and that is a big selling point.

Incidentally, the larger the original image is in relation to the format of the cameras picture area, the less external magnification is required to view it, and therefore the final image will be less degraded. That is the fundamental principle behind photomacrography, and that is why I specified shooting at 1:1 or better. You made use of the principle yourself by using the supplementary lenses to get the close look at a detail. The ability to shoot in that range through the use of various kinds of tools is what I was referring to. Supplementary lenses can get you into macro mode, and may be good enough for what I am ultimately interested in doing. But I like flexibility, and other macro options, like extensions and lens reversal, are not available tools in a fixed lens camera. That said, if something gets the job done on the cheap, then why not?

But to get back to my basic question, I'd like to hear a little more about the A60 and computer camera control. Software, cables, and how it works. I wonder if I have any or all of that available to me with the Coolpix and just don't know it. Similarly, I want to hear about your lens adapter. And I would like to hear how you are able to overcome the limitations of auto focusing.

Meanwhile, as a way of looking at other options, what are folks on this list using for macro work with a digital SLR and interchangeable lenses?

[bpmurphy]

"Meanwhile, as a way of looking at other options, what are folks on this list using for macro work with a digital SLR and interchangeable lenses?"

I have a Canon 30D and a Sigma 150mm F2.8 Macro but don't use it to shoot coins. A simple point and shoot camera is plenty. The problem with the SLR is that you have to look throught the viewfinder and when you have the camera mounted on a copy stand or tripod, it's rather uncomfortable, specially when you have to photograph 100 coins or more. I'd much rather have a camera with an adjustable screen that I can position at a comfortable angle. I could hook the 30D up to the computer but that's too much back and forth. With my Nikon 995 I can shoot 100 coins in an hour. I couldn't come close to that with the 30D.

If I were just shooting a few coins, perhaps I'd use the 30D, but I don't plan on doing any 30 inch prints so the extra pixels are useless for me.

Barry Murphy

[bbridgwater]

LRBguy,
This is the lens adapter I use with the Canon A60, the Canon part number for this is LA-DC52C. The adapter screws/snaps into place on the camera and provides a standard 52mm thread that you can use for things like close-up lenses and filters.

http://www.buy.com/prod/canon-52mm-conversion-lens-adapter-for-a70-a60/q/loc/101/10354751.html?dcaid=17379

The close-up set I bought is just a regular set that would normally be used with a traditional camera, such as these. I got mine used on eBay.

http://www.photosolve.com/main/product/lenses/images/closeup_300w.jpg

The A60 does have manual focus if you choose to use it, but the manual focus can not be used if you are using the computer-controlled remote operation feature. I have not found the auto focus to be a limitation. Using the remote software you are still able to choose between multi-point (9-point?) auto focus or center point auto focus. Sometimes I do try the center focus if I want more control, but I usually use a fixed aperture of f/8 (camera's minimum) to get greatest depth of field, so it's not really an issue.

The remote operation feature does not need anything additional beyond what comes with the camera: a USB cable to connect the camera to a USB port on your computer, and the Windows based "remote capture" software that comes on CD and gets installed on your computer.

The remote capture software is actually much more than a remote shutter release - it's a way to totally control the camera from your computer, lets you view what the camera sees on the computer screen, and saves the pictures you take directly to disk on the PC which is very convenient. The software gives you graphical controls for all the cameras settings, which is much easier than using the camera on it's own and having to navigate through all the menus to set the various parameters. One thing that is missing from the software is an ability to let you set (vs use) the custom white balance, so I do this manually before I start shooting.

Once you're set up for remote shooting, then it's a very productive environment. I can easily take a picture every 30sec like this - all perfectly focused, assuming that I don't want to adjust the lighting between pictures. If different patina causes a coin to come out too light/dark, then just use use your mouse to adjust the exposure compensation, and click to retake the picture. There's also a 3rd party remote control software package than can be used as an alternative to the Canon software that allows automatic one-click exposure bracketing.

I'm not sure which other brands of camera other than Canon support this type of remote operation, but I would never switch to one without it - it's just too convenient!

Ben

[lrbguy]

LRBguy,
The remote capture software is actually much more than a remote shutter release - it's a way to totally control the camera from your computer, lets you view what the camera sees on the computer screen, and saves the pictures you take directly to disk on the PC which is very convenient. The software gives you graphical controls for all the cameras settings, which is much easier than using the camera on it's own and having to navigate through all the menus to set the various parameters. One thing that is missing from the software is an ability to let you set (vs use) the custom white balance, so I do this manually before I start shooting.

Once you're set up for remote shooting, then it's a very productive environment. I can easily take a picture every 30sec like this - all perfectly focused, assuming that I don't want to adjust the lighting between pictures. If different patina causes a coin to come out too light/dark, then just use use your mouse to adjust the exposure compensation, and click to retake the picture. There's also a 3rd party remote control software package than can be used as an alternative to the Canon software that allows automatic one-click exposure bracketing.

I'm not sure which other brands of camera other than Canon support this type of remote operation, but I would never switch to one without it - it's just too convenient!

Ben

Thanks again, Ben. This software is getting my attention as the best way to go for batch work, even if not for critical work. When I spoke of manual focusing, I was not referring to the "manual" setting on an auto camera, I was referring to the ability to adjust the focus of a lens by twisting a knurled ring on the lens barrel with thumb and fingers. A helical mount lens, which the A60 does not have. It allows very precise adjustment especially when used with a critical focusing attachment on the eyepiece.

Being able to input directly into the computer, and to use the computer screen and mouse for adjustments sounds very tempting. So I am going to look into it further and probably spring for one. I want to make sure I get the right pieces though. Since I already have a 62mm close up set, I ordered an adaptor tube and step up ring combo that would get me there. As I look at the offerings for this camera on eBay, however, they don't say much about this remote focusing software, if they are offering the camera with a software disk at all. Is this the software CD that has the remote control program:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-POWERSHOT-SOFTWARE-CD-DRIVER-MANUAL-A60-A70-S400_W0QQitemZ320054614896

Or. do you see it in one of the pics in this lot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-Powershot-A70-A60-Manuals-CDs-Box_W0QQitemZ300052038593



Is the hookup to the computer via the USB or the Video hookup cable? To a computer I would expect a USB hookup, but what do I know? So this is the cable?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Cable-for-Canon-Powershot-A40-A60-A70-A100-A200-G5_W0QQitemZ220053494641

[bbridgwater]

Is this the software CD that has the remote control program:
http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-POWERSHOT-SOFTWARE-CD-DRIVER-MANUAL-A60-A70-S400_W0QQitemZ320054614896

Or. do you see it in one of the pics in this lot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-Powershot-A70-A60-Manuals-CDs-Box_W0QQitemZ300052038593


It's hard to tell what's what from those photos, but anyway you can download the "Remote capture" software for free from Canon's web site, and I think that's all you need (they also have some driver software you can download, but I don't think that's needed).

To download the software, go here and click on download, then select "consumer", "digital cameras", "PowerShot A-series", "A60" as it prompts you, then "Drivers/Software", and finally "Remote Capture for Windows". I see they have a Mac version too that I wasn't aware of.

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/canonindex.html


Is the hookup to the computer via the USB or the Video hookup cable? To a computer I would expect a USB hookup, but what do I know? So this is the cable?:
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Cable-for-Canon-Powershot-A40-A60-A70-A100-A200-G5_W0QQitemZ220053494641

Yes - that's the USB cable you need. The camera command and picture data all gets transfered via this USB cable.

Ben

[lrbguy]

I have a Canon A60 and am very happy with it. Here's an example of a photo taken with it (this one in natural sunlight).

The A60 itself has 3x optical zoom (don't count digital zoom - it's useless), and I use it together with stacked 2x + 4x close-up "lenses" (these are flat like a UV filter) and an adapter for the A60 since these low-end cameras can't use them directly. The additional cost for adapter (new) and 1x2x4x close-up set (used on eBay) was about $35. With this combination I have 3x2x4 = 24x magnification, which is more than enough to fill the frame with a large follis, and still get very large combined images of the smaller coins (e.g. 1600x800 for a AE3-4). The details will vary from camera to camera because of the different macro modes available (how close to the coin you can get and still focus).

Ben

Ben, could you show us another sample shot, but this time for an AE3 or AE4 coin; maybe a campgate bronze?

I bought the camera and some adaptors, and have a power adaptor on the way as well as the USB cable. I already have a set of closeup lenses, and a step up ring to use them with this camera. I want to see what it can do with a smaller subject than you sampled before, by someone who really knows this camera for this kind of shooting. So if it isn't too much trouble?

[bbridgwater]

Hi LRBguy,
Here's a couple of examples of smaller coins - an 18mm campgate and a Constantinopolis. These are raw from the camera - not resized or post-processed in any way. This is typical of what you should get. You could certainly improve on the lighting, or could post-process to improve the contrast (make them "pop") since my lighting is way too harsh and washes them out.

I wouldn't claim to be any kind of expert on photography, or this camera - far from it! I'm still in the process of learning this myself.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1463/capture00005rr4.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5900/capture00011dk8.jpg

I took these at 750x750 for this Forum, but they are still over the 100KB limit, so rather than resizing I just put them on imageshack. Below is the same campgate photo resized and with the levels tweaked.

Ben

[lrbguy]

Hi LRBguy,
Here's a couple of examples of smaller coins - an 18mm campgate and a Constantinopolis. These are raw from the camera - not resized or post-processed in any way.

I took these at 750x750 for this Forum, but they are still over the 100KB limit, so rather than resizing I just put them on imageshack. Below is the same campgate photo resized and with the levels tweaked.

Thanks Ben. I see that the sharpness is not going to be much better than what the Coolpix was doing, but it should be much simpler to get there when the setup is done.

On these shots may I ask what kind of lens stack you were using and what shooting distance you used? I am assuming you had the camera set for aperture preference (Av) and set the aperture for f.8, is that correct?

Until I get my interface cable and AC adapter I won't try running the software. However, the only notes I have seen with respect to controlling the camera via the computer refer to remote shutter release. They say nothing about changing other camera settings. I got the impression that the software you are using offers a lot more control than that.

[bbridgwater]

Yes - these were aperture priority, f.8, with 2x+4x close-up lenses stacked, full zoom with macro enabled, at max 1600x1200 resolution. I took these at about as close as you can focus with that combo, which is around 3-4 inches. My lighting is horrible - a weak daylight bulb at 4-5 inches away! Sunlight is much better, but I havn't yet made the effort to try to get closer to that with an artificial source.

I don't think you'd be able to see the control portion of the software (which does allow full control) unless the camera is actually connected, so you will have to wait for the cable to see it. I also use an A/C adaptor when I'm using the camera in this way, but it is pretty good with batteries (I use rechargeable ones).

Ben

[lrbguy]

I don't think you'd be able to see the control portion of the software (which does allow full control) unless the camera is actually connected, so you will have to wait for the cable to see it. I also use an A/C adaptor when I'm using the camera in this way, but it is pretty good with batteries (I use rechargeable ones). Ben

This is an overdue followup to our converstaion about the Canon A60. I managed to piece together a small system with USBcable, lens adapter, supplementary lenses, A/C adaptor, and of course the camera. However, in testing it out I found that the camera I got has some electrical problem which causes it to eat batteries very fast, and won't work consistently with the A/C adaptor. It works fine with batteries, so my wife will get it as a simple point and shoot. Fortunately it was cheap. Anyway, I have ordered another one and when it gets here I expect it to work with the system. Then I have to tend to the lighting.

To get an even background, I am considering rigging up a lightbox that the coin will "float" above on a piece of glass a few inches above the lightbox. But just out of curiosity, is anyone using a simpler setup that gives a nice even white background? My main lights are two gooseneck lamps that I have loaded with florescent tungsten-equivalent bulbs. However, once I get the the base light put together I will switch to daylight balanced UV lamps because the A60 has a specific setting for that light source, and I'm not good at eyeballing white balance. The flourescents are great for keeping the working temperature down, which helps when you are working in close.

Those are my thoughts. Anyone got any other suggestions?

[bbridgwater]

I havn't tried it myself, but a setup that others use sucessfully as a lightbox alternative is to place the coin on a piece of non-glare glass (you can buy it at a picture framing store) sitting on top of a white kitchenware baking dish (glass vs porcelain), and have a light source directed into the dish where it will bounce around and provide a uniform white background.

The A60 does have a custom white balance setting so that you can adjust it to any source - you just provide a white (or grey) neutral background then select set white balance mode and hit the set button.

Ben

[cogito]

AlexB and I have this set up for coin photography:

http://store.tabletopstudio-store.com/cophkit.html

And, here's a photo of how I have it configured at home. The two articulated lamps were purchased at Target for $15.00 ea. I find that a combination of natural light (from window) and one of the daylight lamps gives the best results.

To answer Ben's question, the lightbox background that comes with this kit is quite good.

Jeff

http://www.ancients.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=900&stc=1&d=1158461411

http://www.ancients.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=901&stc=1&d=1158461520

[4to2centophilia]

First attempt at this.

By the light of a window on a cloudy day. Nikon and tripod.

http://www.ancients.info/gallery/data/504/Lysimachos1.jpg (http://www.ancients.info/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3955/ppuser/395)

AlexB and I have this set up for coin photography:

http://store.tabletopstudio-store.com/cophkit.html

And, here's a photo of how I have it configured at home. The two articulated lamps were purchased at Target for $15.00 ea. I find that a combination of natural light (from window) and one of the daylight lamps gives the best results.

To answer Ben's question, the lightbox background that comes with this kit is quite good.

Jeff

http://www.ancients.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=900&stc=1&d=1158461411

http://www.ancients.info/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=901&stc=1&d=1158461520

[cogito]

That's quite good. Did you desaturate the image or photograph in black and white? Looks like the coins were raised above the field somehow...right?

If possible, I too, like to photograph in natural light. I DETEST flash photography.

Jeff

[4to2centophilia]

Desaturated. The coin was balanced on a small block of plastic.

M

[4to2centophilia]

Same set up. Color.

[cogito]

I'm partial to the color set up. The coin shows up rather nicely against the backdrop. The placement of a very faint light in the lower right field could help illuminate the dark edges at bit.

Jeff

[lrbguy]

I also use an A/C adaptor when I'm using the camera in this way, but it is pretty good with batteries (I use rechargeable ones).

Ben

I must say I have not been having much luck getting a reliable system so far. I have two of the caeras, and neither of them will work propoerly when hooked up to the computer and using the A/C adaptor. In one case I get a message in the camera monitor telling me to change the battery pack - SOME OF THE TIME - and then it won't send an image to the computer. With the other camera I get a message on the computer monitor saying that the viewfinder is unusable, please try again later. That happens most of the time, whether with the A/C adaptor or batteries. One time I got it to work with batteries, but not yet with the adaptor.

The vendor from whom I purchased the second camera says there is a known issue with the A60 failing in this situation, and that Canon will repair it for free if I send the camera to them. I have not gotten any specifics on that and don't know how to check it out. Sounds a little fishy to me, since I bought the camera used and not directly from Canon. He is willing to swap it for another one in his stock, but i don't know whether I can expect it to work any better.

When you hook up the camera to your computer and are using the A/C power supply, how does your camera perform? Any ambient or transcient problems?

To cover myself I bought a rechargeable battery system, but I still would prefer to use the adator if I can get it to work. BTW the adaptor I am using is a Canon unit normally meant for this camera.

[bbridgwater]

When you hook up the camera to your computer and are using the A/C power supply, how does your camera perform? Any ambient or transcient problems?


It works reliably (I always use the A/C adaptor when using it remotely). The only real annoyance is that the camera will after a while turn itself off automatically, but I assume this is a self-saving "feature" rather than a problem.

The camera-computer cable does seem sensitive to movement and/or static (not sure which), but this may be exacerbated by my using a USB extension cable so that I can use it across the room. It's fine as long as I don't touch the cable while I'm using it, but if I do then there's a chance the computer-camera connection may be dropped and I have to reconnect.

Ben

[Dumanyu]

I found the Nikon Coolpix 3500 to be an excellent choice. The most important element is a good close up macro. Here's a date I photographed from a 1942 DD mercury dime, and the dime itself, just to give an example. I photographed it upside down to better focus on the date.
Also, the best way to photograph is with a good light source on a white paper backgroud. This will keep the flash from firing, if your camera doesn't have a way to turn off the flash.

[lrbguy]

I also use an A/C adaptor when I'm using the camera in this way, but it is pretty good with batteries (I use rechargeable ones).
Ben

After all this time you probably think I have forgotten about this thread, but that's not it. I have tried three different A60 cameras and cannot get any of them to work well with the computer when they are operating on the power supply. I'm trying to troubleshoot this thing to a conclusion, and could use your help in the form of feedback, if it's not too much of an imposition. Once I get this figured out I can start to do coin pics. I wonder if there is something about my technique that is causing trouble. Here's the latest.

The present camera works fine on batteries and with the A/C adapter when it is in shooting mode and not tethered to the computer. Plugging in the adapter overrides the battery source, so it operates the same as when the batteries are not there. The power supply connection can be a little finicky, dropping the connection some of the time and requiring a restart of the camera. Even if there are batteries in the camera, a dropped adapter connection requires a toggle of the camera start button, whether tethered to the computer or not. Despite that, all functions work at all settings as far as I have tested it. It also does fine in displaying pics for review.

When I tether it to the computer and use the batteries, I am able to get all functions to work normally in the capture software. However, when I use the A/C adapter, I can take a picture via the software, and change the settings for most functions, but I cannot use the viewfinder on the computer screen or the monitor on the camera. Positioning a subject is by dead guess. There is also an ambient problem with the zoom control, inasmuch as changing that setting can cause the connection to drop. When that happens, not only does the software have to be restarted, but the camera power button has to be toggled for the restart. If I have batteries in the camera and have the adaptor plugged in, the software viewfinder does not work.. But if I simply unplug the adaptor from the camera and leave the computer link cable alone, then on restart I have full function in the software, including the viewfinder.

That made me think that maybe the A/C adaptor was not putting out enough voltage to support the camera and computer hookup. According to the label it is the right supply unit for this camera, and a volt meter test showed it is up to spec; i.e. 4.3 volts. So now I'm wondering if I'm hooking it up wrong or have overlooked something I need to toggle on the camera or the software. Before I drive myself nuts (or nuttier than I have become) perhaps you could walk me through the way you hook up your camera to the computer and the A/C adaptor and initialize the software for a shooting session. If you don't have the time or patience for that sort of thing I will understand. But this way I can't use houshold power except through rechargeable batteries, which get cumbersome in the middle of a lengthy shooting session when they have to be changed. To change them I have to pull the camera from the shooting setup, and then reposition everything.

Can you help me get this thing to work?

[Dumanyu]

I am a bit confused. Why do you have to hook the camera up to the AC adapter to interface with your computer? The USB (which I assume you're using) carries it's own power, and the software that comes with your camera should handle the transfer to your 'puter. My Nikon doesn't allow me to use the little display screen on my camera during transfers because the software handle it, and throws all the images into a file folder. Afterward, I can do whatever I need to do in the software.
I admit my camera doesn't have an AC adapter, it works strictly on the rechargeable battery, but I still don't understand why you need the adapter during transfers. It may be that there is a power conflict with it hooked up both to the USB, and the AC. You may want to check your owners manual on that.

Fred

[lrbguy]

I am a bit confused. Why do you have to hook the camera up to the AC adapter to interface with your computer?
I admit my camera doesn't have an AC adapter, it works strictly on the rechargeable battery, but I still don't understand why you need the adapter during transfers.

Sorry Fred, and anyone else that I confused. I should have clarified that I was picking up an old discussion with Ben on the Canon A60. The issues I am discussing are not about downloading images from the camera. The A60 will allow you to hook the camera to a computer with special remote capture software, and use the computer to remotely operate the camera for picture taking. When everything works as it should you can see on the computer screen the image that the camera monitor would show, as well as adjust settings and focus, and snap the shot. In my case it doesn't work that way when I am powering the camera with its A/C adator. I've tried three cameras and tested the adaptor, but can't get it to work right. I CAN do it with batteries, but Ben is able to do it with his adaptor.

[bbridgwater]

LRBGuy,
That sounds quite odd. I can understand that the camera might not work with the A/C adaptor at all if something is wrong, but partially workign is very odd. Perhaps it is related to the setup vs being the camera - hopefully so.

The procedure that I use to set it up is:

1) Plug A/C adaptor into camera and into power outlet
2) Plug USB cable into camera (but not into computer yet)
3) Turn camera on
4) Switch camera into View vs Shoot mode (via switch by LCD screen) as needed for Remote
5) Plug USB cable into computer
6) Windows then automatically pops up a window asking which app I want to run, showing Canon Zoom Browser as the default, so I click on OK to accept this
7) The intial application that starts has a title "Camera Window", and I click on the "X" in the top right corner to kill this (I'm not sure why this runs, but it does...)
8) The main Zoom Browser app now starts, and I click on Camera & Memory card, then on Remote Shooting to get to the Remote shooting application itself
9) The remote shooting app prompts me to click to connect to the camera, so I do
10) The viewfinder/controls part of the application now starts, initially with the viewfinder blank
11) Click on "ViewFinder on" just below the viewfinder window to enable it

If you switch away from the viewfinder window to adjust controls like aperture, etc, then the viewfinder will automatically be disabled when you switch back (a bit annoying!), so you have to clck on "ViewFinder on" again to enable it.

I'm sure you can run the remote shooting app directly from the Windows start menu also, but I always start it this way by plugging the camera in in this way.

As it happens I've been starting to use the camera directly (not via computer) quite a lot for one-off coin photos, since the setup time isn't really worth it unless you are going to take quite a lot of photos.

Incidently, from stuff I've read, I'm now using the 4x (vs 4x+2x) close-up only - less magnification to get greater depth of field, and am using ISO 100 vs 50 since I'm guessing that ISO 100 is the natural sensitivity of the image sensor, and the way digital ISO works you lose dynamic range if you reduce the ISO number from the sensor's natural value.

Ever since you pointed it out I've been trying to see what is the best way to get perfect focus, but it doesn't really seem possibly to improve it. The autofocus also seems quite sensitive to glare as I found trying to experiment with a dime in bright sunlight.

Ben

[lrbguy]

6) Windows then automatically pops up a window asking which app I want to run, showing Canon Zoom Browser as the default, so I click on OK to accept this


I was with you up to this step. The Windows box I get has no option for the capture program.


6) 7) The intial application that starts has a title "Camera Window", and I click on the "X" in the top right corner to kill this (I'm not sure why this runs, but it does...)
8) The main Zoom Browser app now starts, and I click on Camera & Memory card, then on Remote Shooting to get to the Remote shooting application itself


The app I have from Canon is not called Zoombrowser. It is called Canon Utilities Remote Capture.

I checked around for Zoombrowser, and there are several versions. Which one do you have? I downloaded ver. 2.2 Somebody advised that the later versions (e.g. 5.5) are upgrades and need an early version to be on the machine.

Since we are using different apps I couldn't follow your procedue any further [like I really needed to tell you that].

[lrbguy]

LRBGuy,
That sounds quite odd. I can understand that the camera might not work with the A/C adaptor at all if something is wrong, but partially workign is very odd. Perhaps it is related to the setup vs being the camera - hopefully so.


I was able to load in Zoombrowser EX version 4.6, and it goes through the same cycle you were describing.

The first time I tried running it with the camera connected, it worked pretty much as you said, except that the viewfinder already had an image.

I took a shot with the online button and it gave an image as expected, but when I tried to take a second shot, the capture window shut down and I got an error message telling me "camera powered down due to low battery charge," even though it was hooked up to the A/C adaptor. I had to power down and power up the camera again, but after that I kept getting the same error message and was not able to access the camera when on the adaptor. It works fine with batteries. The other capture software (Remote Capture) continues to allow me to take shots and control various features of the camera when on the adaptor, but it will not show a viewfinder image. Now I know that is because of the "low power" condition the software is registering.

From this I suspect that either the adaptor is not working properly, i.e. too little power even though it is sending out the right voltage, or else the cable is not getting everything to the camera that the adaptor is putting out. It seems a little suspicious to me that the software and camera were able to work together until I took that first shot. I'm really not sure what to make of that.

At this point the only other thing I can think of to try is getting a new Canon A/C adaptor kit. Unless you have any other ideas.

At any rate, thanks for your help on this. I appreciate the trouble you took to get me this far. We'll just have to see what happens next.

Your thoughts are always welcome.